Landowner negotiations in progress

[Admin]

If you're in negotiation with a landowner, and you'd like to make it known to avoid anyone treading on your toes with them, post the details in this thread.

---
Bill

[KathyXB]

I am currently 'negotiating' with personnel at Eastleigh Borough Council about placing caches in several of their Countryside sites, since I would rather start by having their permission instead of just planting some!

So far hitting some walls (mainly they say they don't know about geocaching, they don't know what the Council's policy on geocaching is, etc etc). I hope that when its done with, they will be cacher-friendy councillors and also have a better awareness of the scale of the activity.

(and also, the fact that there are already lots of caches within their sites, something which seems to have escaped them so far...)

Kathy
:)

[The Forester]

I'm making good progress with the Muiravonside Country Park in central Scotland. Owned by the Falkirk Council, the park is run by the Head Ranger with whom I established comms a couple of months ago.

He's been exceptionally busy and has had to prioritise his time and understandably my geocaching request is not very high on his priority list. Understanding this, I've taken the softlee softlee approach and have limited my 'nagging' requests to a maximum of one email per month.

Today I had a face to face chat with him. He's pro-geocaching and favourably disposed towards us. I did have to overcome his misapprehension that caches are "buried". I explained our rule about never digging with any implement in either placing or hunting a cache and I mentioned the prohibition against using any animal runs hides or burrows.

He requested that I include a sentence on any cachepage declaring that under the wildlife conservation legislation which covers this protected area it is the Law that forbids the use of any digging implement or disturbing wildflowers or other wildlife.

One problem which I've addressed and resolved is that there had been, for a couple of years or more, an illicit cache within the Park. The illegality of that cache was compounded by the fact that the path which it was closest to was subsequently closed and barricaded for public safety as the water erosion had made the path unmaintainable. I recovered the cache a couple of months ago. It was waterlogged and comprehensively ruined by mildew, so its replacement will be a nice new waterprrof job.

I've got two or three very monor details to deal with before making the two caches live, but I expect to complete by the end of January.

The Head Ranger has my caching profile contact details, as well as my personal email and home address and telephone number. By arrangement, we've agreed that I am his point of contact in the event of any matters arising from either of the two proposed caches in the park. Placement of further caches within the property, subject to the usual 0.1mile GC.com rule, will be a simple matter of informing the Ranger of the proposed location.

This permission, which is now 99% complete, is only for the Muiravonside Countrypark and does not extend to other properties owned and operated by Falkirk Council, but I'm confident that after a few months of trouble-free geocaching we will be well placed to approach the relevant Rangers in other Council properties with a good reference from this Head Ranger.

[KathyXB]

Update on my approach to Eastleigh Borough Council reference placing caches on their managed sites:

Had an email from them a few days ago giving me the go ahead for cache placement! Hurrah! Their proviso was that they are placed according to Hampshire County Council guidelines (which I stated would be the case when I initially asked for their approval) and that I inform them of the exact location and what the cache looks like.

Another bonus of this was they said they would let the countryside officers/rangers know so that if the cache was discovered away from its proper location they would return it to position. Sounds like a very positive attitude and I think its fair to say they seem to be geo-friendly now :)

[Mrs Blorenge]

That's good news... very considerate of them, too :) Well done on your efforts!

[Cache U Nutter]

I am in negotiation with the BMC [ British Mountaineering Council] based Manchester :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[KathyXB]

Originally posted by Cache U Nutter@Feb 27 2007, 09:56 AM
I am in negotiation with the BMC [ British Mountaineering Council] based Manchester :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
What are you approaching them about? While I can understand that it is always good for different outdoor organisations to have a good relationship, the BMC are not landowners. Just was wondering if you could clarify?

[Cache U Nutter]

The BMC are land owners, i.e Harrisons, Stone farm etc.
They are also probably one of the major players in negotiating access rights in the U.K to areas of upland Britain, Coastal[ cliff sites]and areas of rock outcrops.
As a friend of their former National access officer I am well aware of the problems that are faced in trying to achieve access to these areas. Given the number of climbers and mountaineers/ fellwalkers in this country [ many, many times more than the current number of Geocachers] it would be prudent to learn from and cooperate with them to help our own needs. [[I also want to place caches on their land!!]
As a long time mountaineer myself with many contacts in the fraternity that is why I am talking to them. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[nobbynobbs]

excellent news. good luck. with any luck you'll be able to appraoch the landowners that have agreements with them and piggy back caching agreements. fingers crossed. not too many mountains down in hampshire though so it'll have to wait for a trip before i can make use of it!!

[Cache U Nutter]

Good point that about piggy backing on agreements, but a long way off yet! also not sure how individual land owners would feel about that ?

[nobbynobbs]

my thought were that if they have a greed to the climbers then they would possibly be open to an approach from cachers, especially when CITO is explained and so on.
by piggy backing i meant that if they have certain conditions already agreed then they may be happy for the same conditions to be applied to us, obviously only after asking them.

keep us informed and let us know if you need help.

[Cache U Nutter]

Will certainly keep you updated, will see what I can do

[nobbynobbs]

contacting the hampshire wildlife trust to try and get a general agreement accross all their sites.

[KernowCachers]

Here are the email replies I received following a request to place a cache on some NT land nearby. (Nearby being North Cornwall)

Dear Jan,

Your faxed letter of 26 March requesting consent to place a geocache on National Trust land between Minster Church and the Valency valley has been passed to me.

I am sorry that it has taken a little time to come back to you, but since receiving your request I have been making enquiries within the Trust about our experience of the impact of geocahes elsewhere. I am sorry to say that on other sites where these have been allowed the Trust has experienced considerable difficulties. In one case a property was extensively damaged by digging as people tried to find the geocahe and in others there have been significant trampling and erosion problems in the area around the geocahe location.

The site you suggest could easily be damaged if similar problems were experienced here and I am sorry to say therefore that we can not give permission for the geocache to be placed. I realise that this will be a disappointment and appreciate that the majority of people seeking out the geocache would act carefully and responsibly but, as I am sure you will understand, our priority must be to avoid damage to the site. I hope you will be successful in finding an alternative location.

Kind regards,

Ian Kemp.
Property Manager, North Cornwall.
-------------------------

From me:

I understand The Trust's position. Can you confirm if this would be the case for any NT land across Cornwall or would each location be considered independently upon request?


------------------------

Jan,

With the Geocahe being a relatively new feature, I don't think we have a clear position statement that covers the whole of the Trust yet. However, I am going to a meeting on Friday where I will raise this with the other countryside managers in Devon and Cornwall. I will hopefully be able to update you then.

Ian-----------------------

I'll let you know what the final outcome is. Hopefully I can at least negotiate a trial period at one location so that the office can have something local to base their decission on.

[minxyy]

Hi all just to let you know I am currntly in negotiations with the Borough of Poole to try to get them to agree to us placing geocaches on land under their durestriction!

I had a positive reply today via e-mail saying that they'd have to have a meeting about it and would get back to me in approx two weeks!

I have sent
-printouts of very good local caches
-copies of agreements rached with Hampshire
-copies of agreements wioth New Forest
-copy of CITO event in Oxford - also showing how well it was attended and the 'mess' they cleared out!
- a covering letter with web addreses for Gagb, Geocaching.com and Hampshire Council
- a list of possible locations for caches including a newly refurbished Poole Park!
- pictures of the different cache containers we use from micro to ammo

I have also offered to take them out Geocaching if they wish! Will have to pick some great urban ones!

Does anyone know of any agreement with Bournemouth Council As I note there are a lot in that vicinity

Any advice/support would be really appreciated

Many thanks
Manda

[nobbynobbs]

no idea about bournemouth, fingers crossed that an agreement was made........
best way would be to contact a few owners first and see what they say.

re the agreement.... do not push the new forest agreement, it is a little restrictive, better one is the hampshire county council.

good work. :)

[imajica]

I'm about to start asking Waverley Borough Council about placing a cache on their land. There is a Countryside Ranger that deals specifically with the area I wish to place a cache so I will contact him first but there is a good chance i'll get referred to somebody at Waverley or maybe even Surrey County Council.

I've not seen any previous agreements or attempted negociations but there are plenty of caches around, I'm worried that by asking for permission it might draw attention to these other caches :( I shall try asking some of these cachers if they have permission and if so go from there but i'm very sure they are not all permitted caches!

Hope this doesn't all backfire, i'll have the rest of the Surrey cachers on my back ;)

[t.a.folk]

We,ve found what we think could be a possible hidey hole in a tree near Boscombe Overcliff Gardens (Bournemouth )
but so far have chickened out of seeking permission from Bournemouth Parks Department to place a cache for the reasons stated above in previous two postings :unsure:

[KathyXB]

I can understand some reticence in asking about permission in an area where caches exist that may have been placed without an agreement having been sought but surely its better to start a negotiation than have the local authorities suddenly discover that there are caches (without permission) and shut down the lot?

I personally don't agree with the idea of keeping caching, or other pursuits, hushed up or secret in order to preserve the activity - far better to be open and honest and get councils on side so it can be encouraged (by good, well placed caches that bring people to areas of interest/beauty) and not become seen as a 'problem' to wildlife or land.

If you can contact local authorities/councils with a confident approach, able to show them you understand how to avoid negative impact on the areas, and show them well-placed local caches as an example, then I reckon reasonable officials will at least take the time to consider what you are proposing.

Go for it...

[Bill D (wwh)]

There have been previous instances where cachers have sought permission for caches in areas where there have already been caches in position without permission. Often the landowners have proved to be very understanding and co-operative, so don't let existing caches which may well not have permission deter you.

The worst scenario is that the landowner removes the existing caches, but if that happens, well, it was going to sooner or later anyway... As Kathy says, it's far better to be open and honest. :)

[nobbynobbs]

again i can only back up what kathy and bill have said. but first stage would be to contact the other cachers anyway.
at the end of the day they might well have permission to have those caches there and your belief that no permission could be erroneous.

then go ahead and open negotiations. it is easier to say sorry after us approaching them than the other way.

so hopefully we can expect an agreement from the bournemouth authorities soon then. :)

[t.a.folk]

Not from us ,we are feeling pressurised already ...and that's just from last few postings on here . :(

And apolgies to cache owners in Bournmouth who might now be reading stuff we didn't intend in our posting earlier .Our wariness is solely based on postings we,ve seen elsewhere in the past re cachers seeking permission from the landowners /managers etc and the landowners /agents etc knowing nothing about caches already there .

[nobbynobbs]

pressured? not my intention by any means. i interpretted your post as a desire to contact the council and formalise the agreements with them, but you being too reticent to commit so encouragement given.


would hate to think of people not getting out there and making agreements based on mistaken beliefs and fear.


same as anything in life, the more involved people get, actually doing more than wishfull thinking then the better it is for all.....

[Admin]

Bill and Pat, I certainly didn't intend to make you feel pressurised in any way! Yes, I know there have been cases of landowners being approached and then discovering there were caches on their land that they didn't know about, and some of those cases have turned out badly. But as I said above, sometimes it goes the other way... :)

Edit: Oops, I forgot I was logged in as Admin - this is Bill posting...!

---
Bill D (wwh)

[nobbynobbs]

so i'm assuming from that that no one is contacting bournemouth then? or is it all being left to minxyy.

good luck to them hopefully they will be able to acheive both, i'm sure that there will be lots of caches placed once permission is formalised. be good to have an excuse to get down to bournemouth caching again.

[imajica]

Well I have bad news. Waverley Borough Council have answered my initial approach email with a big no to Geocaching on their land. Which is... worrying :unsure: I daren't push this as there are many, many other resident cachers to think about. I'm really disappointed because i'd taken great care to write the perfect email.

In a slightly confusing twist they told me that the site I was requesting permission for isn't even Waverley land :blink: This baffles me as I live there and I'd emailed the designated Waverley Countryside Ranger directly from their website. So now I could contact Surrey CC, but to be honest I'm afraid of rejection on a grand scale.

[nobbynobbs]

your best bet is to try to contact the ranger personally to have a meeting. don't even say what about, just that you need to discuss a use of the land.

if it's the forest, could it be the forestry commission? might already be covered under their agreements with us.

any local cachers with caches in similar locations? worth dropping them an email to ask.

you often acheive much more talking to the local person instead of the faceless person in the main office. they tend to be very busy and it's just easier to say no.

[imajica]

I did try and contact the local ranger, but they're all in the same office and I can see my email has been forwarded via three different people further up the chain.

On a more positive note I tried Surrey County Council and the Senior Countryside Access Officer there has been incredibly helpful. He said that he wasn't aware of Geocaching but now realises what all these boxes are!

I'm now going to go on and attempt to arrange a trial agreement with the Surrey Wildlife Trust :)

[nobbynobbs]

good luck with the wildlife trust, i'm seeing the hants and IOW trust tomorrow. they aren't very positive at the moment time to turn on the charm.... :o i'm in trouble!!!

the trouble is people either get this hobby or not. the ones who don't are too busy worrying about us to be influenced!!!

[Bill D (wwh)]

imajica wrote:
He said that he wasn't aware of Geocaching but now realises what all these boxes are!

Well, at least he knew they were there and wasn't horrified...! Best of luck with your approaches!

[KernowCachers]

Here is the latest news re nogotiations with the National Trust in Cornwall.

Dear Jan,

I am sorry that I have been so long in coming back to you. However having now made contact with our national access and recreation section and done some more research, I am pleased to say that I am able to be much more positive about the prospect of a new geocahe located on our land.

I would like to take up the proposal outlined in your last letter and set up a geocache location which we can closely monitor along the lines you suggest.

Our requirements when trying to identify a suitable site would be as follows:

1. That the geocache should not be buried
2. That it should not be placed where other visitors are likely to find it
3. That its location should not promote ant potentially dangerous behaviour by others egg; It should not be necessary to have to climb or swim to the geocahe location.
4. That the chosen location should not disrupt any sensitive natural habitats.

I imagine that there will be plenty of scope to identify locations that satisfy these criteria so it should be possible to agree a suitable place for a trial. Once we have done this we can give it a go.

I would like to involve our Area Warden, Mike, in helping to identify and agreeing to the trail site so I am copying him in on this email and will ask him to make contact with you over the next few days to make arrangements.

I hope the trial proves a success and will be interested to see how it all works.

Kind regards,

Ian.

I'll think carefully before suggesting a location and placing a cache...... Lets hope this can result in a blanket agreement for the County very soon

Jan
KernowCachers

[nobbynobbs]

excellent work, can't wait for the cache. :D

[Bill D (wwh)]

Great work, Jan, that's really good! :applause:

[imajica]

Ok. I'm going around in circles with my requests so I'm after some advice :) The local ranger who I originally emailed has been on holiday, so despite being told no by someone else in his office i've now had a very helpful email from him:

"Hi Rachael.

Thanks for getting in touch. It's nice to be asked permission for geocaching.

...

Whilst we're in touch, I believe that there are a few other locations nearby that are under Waverley's management which are also being used for geocaching, and it would be useful to ensure that we as managers know where the caches are situated so that we don't remove them as litter for one thing.

I believe that caches exist on Frensham Common, Blackheath Common and possibly other sites within the Borough. Is there any chance you could provide further details of them?

Many thanks in advance."

Now what do I do? Contact all the owners? :wacko: Do a Pocket Query and lend him my GPS for the weekend ;) I want to help as much as possible obviously. I know for the landownder agreements there is a "geocacher contact", is that where I should be leading this?

[nobbynobbs]

it's a pain but my first action eould be to contact the owners of the caches to ask who gave them permission, could be that it's all legit and easily sortable.

if not then let them ranger know where they are and eat some humble pie to hopefully smooth over any aggro.

don't worry too much at this stage it might all fit nicely in place with permissions already granted. just because it's under their management doesn't mean they are the only people who can grant permission, someone owns the land :)

[Bill D (wwh)]

Imajica, I might be able to offer you a little help with this. Email on its way...

---
Bill, Chairman GAGB

[imajica]

I'm back again! Im not very much further forward but it turns out that (of those that have replied to me) either no permissions had been granted or it was so long ago that the details have been lost with previous rangers.

The ranger has spoken to his colleagues and it turns out that one has recently removed a cache so I was a little too late to save that one :( He has asked me to email grid references for a bunch of caches directly to the relevent ranger so that they can work out the suitability of the locations. Is it ok to do this if I don't get permission from the cache setters? I only hope these other rangers are as positive as the chap i'm currently dealing with :unsure:

Also - I STILL dont have permission for the cache I was getting in touch with originally :blink:

[Bill D (wwh)]

imajica wrote:
He has asked me to email grid references for a bunch of caches directly to the relevent ranger so that they can work out the suitability of the locations. Is it ok to do this if I don't get permission from the cache setters?
I don't see that there's a problem with this as it's information in the public domain. After all, they can if they wish get it directly from gc.com themselves.

[Happy Humphrey]

After success with Isle of Man official bodies DAFF (Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forests) and MNH (Manx National Heritage), I felt fairly confident about approaching the Isle of Man Water Authority for cache permission, particularly having been given a contact name.

I was seeking permission to place a cache on what is clearly IOMWA land, about 200 yards from the edge of a reservoir, up a hill and adjacent to a track. Permission refused: no right of way to access the cache area (true, although the track is in common use), and too close to the reservoir (not sure of the relevance of that one).

So I accepted the decision, and asked whether a cache with access by public footpath would be likely to get approved - "probably, yes".

A week later, I had the perfect site: near a reservoir again but right at the side of a public footpath (a very popular one for dog walkers and anglers). Approx 54°08.218'N, 4°40.445'W. A gentle grass slope leads gradually down from the proposed cache site for about 150 yards to the gently sloping reservoir bank (at a particularly popular spot for trout fishing). A bench just the other side of the path has been provided for admiring the scene. The path is well-maintained.

Permission refused: still too close to the reservoir, concerns about the contents of the box (which would have been a repainted ammo box, although they didn't check) causing water supply problems, also concerns about "security".

Although my original e-mail request had links to the GAGB guidelines, and explained about the cache not being buried, the contents being harmless and the visits infrequent, it appears that permission is never going to be granted within proximity of a reservoir. Is this the case elsewhere? Is there a precedent for a Water Authority to refuse caches on the grounds of a cache box causing health and safety problems?

I'm not THAT desperate to set a cache near a reservoir, but a little more correspondence may at least make them re-think this approach and smooth the way for possible future caches in what appears to be a highly suitable spot. Any suggestions as to the next step?

[Bill D (wwh)]

If you haven't already, I wonder if it would help to meet your contact in person, perhaps taking a cache container and contents along. It sounds as if the problems are at least in part due to misconceptions, and a face-to-face meeting might help things along. Best of luck with whatever you try!

[BillW]

Currently speaking with Stockton Borough Council.

:)

[blueboots]

[QUOTE=nobbynobbs,May 16 2007, 05:08 AM]good luck with the wildlife trust, i'm seeing the hants and IOW trust tomorrow. they aren't very positive at the moment time to turn on the charm.... :o i'm in trouble!!!


There is a place near my home that I would like to hide a cache but it is a Hampshire & IOW Wildlife Trust site. Can I approach them for permission for this single site or should I wait as you are negotiating with them? This would be the first try at hiding a cache.

[nobbynobbs]

Hang on as the agreement is for all their sites. still going through just slowly at this stage. PM me if you want to discuss the idea and location. :)

[reddeeps]

I just wondered if anyone had ever had contact with the environment agency. As theres a lovely old railway bridge here over a river owned by the EA, thats part of a public footpath. If not, does anyone have any objection to me contacting them?

[Bill D (wwh)]

I'm not aware of any geocaching contact with the Environment Agency, but I may of course be corrected on that. Go ahead and contact them by all means, and good luck with your attempt! If you need any help along the way then post here or feel free to PM me.

---
Bill, Chairman GAGB

[reelcutter]

I was advised to visit after going on the forums. I am currently in talks with the National Trust warden for Wenlock edge, we are quite a way along and we are going to meet to discuss it, so he knows exactly what is going on. He has been very helpful and likes the idea of people visiting the area.

[Bill D (wwh)]

That sounds very promising! Good luck with it, and let us know the outcome.

[reelcutter]

Hi I just posting a note to say all went well regarding the cache placement at Wenlock edge, due to the nature of the site we opted for an Earthcache. The National trust warden was most helpful but stressed the need to ask their permission before doing anything on the land he has in his care, which is fair enough I think. cheers Nigel & Jann.

[nobbynobbs]

good news, though i never really understood why anyone would think that people finding an earthcache would cause less disturbance or anything than for a regular cache.
a cache is better than no cache :D

[Bill D (wwh)]

I'm pleased to hear that you got permission! Wenlock Edge sounds like a marvellous location for an earthcache, and it'll bring the warden the extra visitors that he wants!

[sandvika]

I've approached Corporation of London with respect to granting permission to cache at Burnham Beeches, with a view to gaining consent across all their estates in and around London.

[sandvika]

I intend to approach Natural England with respect to establishing the GAGB geocaching guidelines (or as close as is possible) as accepted practice for geocaching in Sites of Special Scientific Interest (SSSIs) that are clasified as "open access" - where the public are permitted to go wherever they like, not restricted to posted rights of way.

There are very many existing caches in open access SSSIs, including recently published ones, however I have had a cache submission rejected because it is in an open access SSSI, albeit on common land. I think the fact that there is such inconsistency demonstrates that there is too great an onus on geocaching.com's reviewers and this needs to be mitigated.

As an example, Swinley Forest to the south of Bracknell, is not only a SSSI but also a European Special Protection Area (SPA) for rare ground nesting birds including the Dartford Warbler. Caches have existed here since the early days of caching and indeed one of them was placed with the explicit consent and participation of Bracknell Forest Borough Council.

Furthermore, Natural England's own public access database of SSSI's is woefully incomplete: Swinley Forest itself does not appear in the open access database, only in the general database.

The motivation for this approach to Natural England is therefore primarily to remove any ambiguity and make life easier for geocaching.com's reviewers. It would have the added benefit of providing a consistent approach applicable to other geocaching web sites too.

[The Wombles]

Sandvika,

Good luck with your negotiations. Let me/us know if you need any support.

[nobbynobbs]

good luck.

my cache "Stop and smell the roses 2" is on what was then english nature land and is a sssi.

it wasn't too hard to get permission from the local warden who was more than happy to come out and give the yes to the final location.

we did hope to expand upon it's success in introducing caching onto their land and showing that it had limited impact. unfortunately time, the change to natural england and a position move for the ranger knocked that idea.

i'm happy to help where possible.

[Bill D (wwh)]

Good luck with London and with Natural England, sandvika! Yes, there do seem to be ambiguities and inconsistencies regarding open access SSSIs, and it would be great to see things clarified. Let us know how it all goes.

[Mancunian]

I'm sorry but in your post, you seem to be missing mentioning the need for the permission of the actual landowner as well.

Natural England is the Regulatory Body for areas classified as being a SSSI, the land is still owned by someone. And that someone is the person who needs to provide initial permission, refering it to Natural England if this person feels that their approval is needed.

Just have a agreement with Natural England does no by pass the need to have the actual permission off the landowner.

From Geocaching.coms Geocache Listing Requirments

Off-limit (Physical) Caches

By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location. However, if we see a cache description that mentions ignoring "No Trespassing" signs (or any other obvious issues), your listing may be immediately archived. We also assume that your cache placement complies with all applicable laws. If an obvious legal issue is present, or is brought to our attention, your listing may be immediately archived.

As for your comment




There are very many existing caches in open access SSSIs, including recently published ones, however I have had a cache submission rejected because it is in an open access SSSI, albeit on common land. I think the fact that there is such inconsistency demonstrates that there is too great an onus on geocaching.com's reviewers and this needs to be mitigated.

The Reviewer in question simply followed standard procedure followed by all 3 UK Reviewers where we are aware a cache or caches are located in a area classified as a SSSI. And simply asked for contact details of the appropriate person acting on behalf of the Landowner who gave permission for the placement of the caches.

Something I personally can not see changing in the future.

Deceangi

[Lactodorum]

Originally posted by sandvika@Mar 12 2008, 01:37 PM
I think the fact that there is such inconsistency demonstrates that there is too great an onus on geocaching.com's reviewers and this needs to be mitigated.
I'm sorry if we seem to be failing to meet your exacting standards. However by denying your cache series all the reviewer was doing was applying a consistent approach we all take when we know a cache is in a SSSI. I'm sure that once the requested details have been provided the caches will be published.

Thank you for your concern for us though.

[sandvika]

Originally posted by Lactodorum@Mar 13 2008, 02:41 PM
I'm sorry if we seem to be failing to meet your exacting standards.
:o For the avoidance of any doubt, the standards that appear to be woefully inadequate are those of Natural England's current web services. :( Perhaps this is due to the fact that they are a new government agency and have not yet had time to get their act together, though I would have expected them to inherit their databases from their predecessors. Since their online databases don't correspond to reality on the ground on any of the several locations I queried :dunno:, you, as cache reviewers can only do your best with the information available, which I am certain you do. :halo:

Of course, if there is a landowner involved, they would be the first port of call, however, landowners are obligated to defer to Natural England anyway.

[sandvika]

Originally posted by sandvika@Mar 12 2008, 10:20 AM
I've approached Corporation of London with respect to granting permission to cache at Burnham Beeches, with a view to gaining consent across all their estates in and around London.
Refusal @ Burnham Beeches

:( It looks like I'm by no means the first to ask and the outcome is de-facto policy. Of course it explains why such a large "hole" in the geocaching landscape exists.


Thank you for your request. Requests for geocaches at BB are increasingly common. As the site is a national nature reserve it is essential to maintain the delicate balance between recreation and conservation. To that end I am consistently declining requests to place geocaches on the site..

[The Wombles]

Sorry to hear about this refusal. Thanks for letting us know, I've added this to the database as permission refused.

[starkey444]

Hi all, I've been in contact with Wokingham Borough Council since November 2007 asking them to reverse their decision to stop caching in their Parks - these included

Dinton Pastures Country Park
California Country Park
Highwood
Keephatch
Aldermoors
Pearmains Copse
Heathlake
The Moors
Warren Wood
The Millenium Arboretum
Lavells Lake Nature Reserve
Charvil Meadows

The good news is that I've received the following communication from them...

Hello Chris
I’ve spoken with Chris Buggy and he has asked me to relay to you that our decision is that we will consider requests from ‘individuals’ wishing to place geocaches at Dinton or any other of our sites, and will accept up to 3 at any one time depending on the site. This will enable us to monitor the geocaching and either be in a position to allow for more or reduce the number we have depending on how we feel it is working out.

I hope this clarifies the situation for you.

Kind regards

Hilary

Hilary Rothery
Countryside Service Administrator
Wokingham Borough Council
Countryside Service
Dinton Pastures Country Park
Davis Street
Hurst, Berkshire, RG10 0TH

RESULT!!!!

So if anyone wants to put caches in the above parks, they'll need to contact the Countryside Service where they will accept/reject/monitor the caching on their land.

Regards
Chris Starke (Starkey444)

[nobbynobbs]

well done :D :beer:

[Bill D (wwh)]

Congratulations on achieving that, Chris - that's really good...! :)

[djhipflask]

I've made contact with Stoke-on-Trent city council RE: placing caching on greenway land. Will keep everyone updated

[nobbynobbs]

good luck. :D

[Team Vorvik]

I have wanted to place a Geocache at a local Nature Reserve which is managed by Yorkshire Wildlife Trust so i arranged to meet with their Community Development Officer Vicky Harland. She listened to my descriptions of what Geocaching was all about and the guidelines that GAGB have used to gain permission to place Geocaches on others land/property, she seemed aware of the advantages of what geocaching would have on their sites and wasn't sure that this is what they would agree to. It didnt make my job any easier when she replied to me describing what geocaching was, with the statement "oh, thats what that little box was at Moorlands that we found, we didnt know what it was so we just left it there". This was found on a school educational trip to their site, she went on to say that she went back later to try and find it and it wasn't there, reading the logs for this site i wonder if thats the time it went awol and was found at another seat on the reserve and replaced at the correct seat? So i took this as a "NO, in principal to the site i was looking at", however the YWT have a lot of land and it would be a shame if this is the case, maybe someone with more experience would have got a different reply? However she did give me the name of a person who is in charge of open spaces and parks in York (York City Council) who i have approached and work is still underway on trying to obtain permission for caches that are already in place and caches in future, will let you know the outcome asap.

[Team Vorvik]

Have just had a message left for me which sounded very fruitful, it would appear that City of York Council are giving us the all clear to place caches on their land etc, i'm just awaiting the written permission be it in a letter format or via email.
:D :beer: :cheers: :applause:

Team vorvik

[Bill D (wwh)]

Have just had a message left for me which sounded very fruitful, it would appear that City of York Council are giving us the all clear to place caches on their land etc, i'm just awaiting the written permission be it in a letter format or via email.
:D :beer: :cheers: :applause:

Team vorvik
That's great, very well done indeed! I know you've put a lot of work into achieving this! :applause: :applause: :applause:

[mousytrap]

Still wondering whether there's an agreement for Environment agency yet. Can't seem to email Reddeeps to ask (see two pages back)...

[reddeeps]

Still wondering whether there's an agreement for Environment agency yet. Can't seem to email Reddeeps to ask (see two pages back)...


Hi
Some one has pointed me in this direction.
But no theres no agreement yet, its has been virtually impossible to find anyone to give me an answer. All areas are indiviually managed, they don't own all the land they manage, the individual area I contacted agreed on the phone that its ok, then 2 days later i got a call from the regional office, saying no way. I have tried to contact someone at head quarters but have never been called back. I must admit I have put it on the back burner for the last few months, as other things have been on my mind, but I could try again after xmas, or you are more than welcome to take it on.
You should be able to email me via my groundspeak account.
Thanks

[reelcutter]

Hi all, I have one years trial on a cache coming to an end in October and I was wondering if I get the all clear for it to stay, what do I need to ask for regarding a blanket agreement with them. Any advice would be great thanks Nigel.:)

[The Wombles]

Nigel, if it's a landowner with other locations then a blanket permission may need to be considered by someboidy else although a successful placement for a year is a great reference.

The first step to a blanket permission is agreement in principle, then agree any conditions and a process by which requests can be made.

I suggest you get yours agreed first and then ask if your contact is the right person to speak to about a blanket permission. If you'd like any help with the blanket permission then let me know.

[reelcutter]

Ok thanks, I'll see if I can get mine permanent first then proceed from there, Fingers crossed.
Nigel.

[Zpyder]

I've just finally written off an email to the person in the East Dorset Countryside management service to begin negotiations on placing a cache in a local forest that they manage. As I only just started the hobby in January, I've been waiting till I'd clocked up some finds. I'm hoping 35 under my belt will have given me enough experience to discuss the nature of caching as well as find a suitable location etc!

I will keep you guys informed. I think the location/forest is an ideal woodland cache and dash, with plenty of access routes and very well managed paths. I'm undecided on a short multi-stage or a classic cache!

[Zpyder]

I've been given the go-ahead RE: the above location

See copied email below:

Hello Chris

Thanks for asking permission and for your compliments re: the site.

I cant see a problem with putting a cache at Poor Common at all.

If you could send me details of the cache that would be interesting

Good luck with it

matt

[reddeeps]

I've been given the go-ahead RE: the above location

See copied email below:


well done